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Nexus 7010 Competitors – Part 2

October 15, 2010 5 comments

**** Please note that these are my own thoughts and observations and should not in any way be taken to be the opinion(s) of my employer. Additionally, this is a rather long post, so please bear with me. I promise not to waste your time by babbling incessantly about non relevant things.

Finally! After many hours spent sifting through vendor websites and reading various documents, I have finished my comparison. If there’s one thing I came away with in this process, it’s that some vendors are better than others at providing specifics regarding their platforms. By far, Juniper was the best at providing in depth documentation on their hardware and software. Although Cisco has a ton of information out there about the Nexus 7000, I found that a lot of it was more on the architecture/design side and less on the actual specifics of the platform itself. Some vendors still hide documentation behind a login that only works with a valid support contract. In my opinion, that’s not a good thing. I think most people research products before they decide to buy, so why hide things that are going to cause roadblocks for people like myself trying to do some initial research? I’ve read MANY brochures, white papers, data sheets, third party “independent” tests(meaning a vendor paid for a canned report that gives a big thumbs up to their product), and other marketing documents in the past couple of weeks. I did not actively seek out conversations with sales people in regards to these products. I did have a couple of conversations around these products and not all the people I talked to were straight sales people. Some were very technical. However, I wanted to go off the things that the websites were advertising. Once the list is narrowed down to 2 or 3 platforms, the REAL work begins with an even deeper dive into the platforms.

I wish I could display the whole thing on this website and have it look pretty. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to do that and make it look nice. Remember, I get paid for networking stuff and not my web skills! In consideration of that, I have attached a PDF file of my comparison chart. I have the original in Excel format, but WordPress wouldn’t allow me to upload it. If you want a copy, I can certainly e-mail it to you. You can send me your e-mail address via a direct message in Twitter. I can be found here.

What IS included in the spreadsheet.

I would love to say that I did all of this work for the benefit of my fellow network engineers, but I would be lying if I said that. I built this out of a specific need that my employer has or will have in the coming months/years. Due to that, some of the features that were important to me may not be important to you. If you find yourself wondering why I included it, just chalk it up to it being something that I considered a
requirement. Having said that, it would be selfish not to share this information with you, so take it for what it’s worth.

When it comes to the actual numbers of things like fan trays and power supplies, I tend to build out the chassis to the full amount it will hold. If it can take 8 power supplies, I will probably use 8. Same with fabric
modules. I like to plan with the belief that I will fully populate the chassis at some point, so I want to have enough power, throughput, and cooling on board to handle any new blades. All chassis examined have the
ability to run on less than the maximum number of power supplies.

When it comes to throughput rates, you have to distinguish between full duplex numbers and half duplex numbers. They don’t always specify which is which, so you have to dig through a lot of documentation to figure out what they are really saying. Thankfully marketing people tend to favor the larger numbers so more often than not, the number given is full duplex. In the case of slot bandwidth, I used the half duplex speed. The backplane numbers are all full duplex.

What IS NOT included in the spreadsheet and why.

If I were to include every single thing these switches support, the spreadsheet would be 10 times bigger than it already is. There are quite a few things that I consider to be basic requirements. These basic things
were left out of the sheet to avoid cluttering it up with things you probably already know. For example, does the switch support IPv6? This should be a resounding yes. If it doesn’t, why in the world would I even
consider it? The same can be said with routing protocols. They all should support OSPFv2 and RIPv2 at a minimum. Most, if not all support IS-IS and BGP as well. It is also worth pointing out that I may not even need this switch to run layer 3. I am looking for 10Gig aggregation and am not necessarily concerned about anything other than layer 2. All of these switches also support QoS. Perhaps they do things a little differently
between each switch, but the basics are still the basics and I don’t really need a billion different options when it comes to QoS. That may change in a few years, but for now, I am not looking at running anything
other than non-storage traffic over these switches.

I think you see my point by now. I could go on and on about what isn’t included. If it is something well known like SSH for management purposes, I don’t need to include it in the list. It’s a given.

Special note on the TOR(Top of Rack) fabric extension.

While I primarily need 10Gig aggregation, another bonus is the ability to have 1Gig copper aggregation as well. However, I don’t want it all coming back to the chassis itself. The Nexus 7010 has the ability through the Nexus 5000’s(of which I already own several) to attach Nexus 2000 series fabric extenders that function as top of rack switches(although it’s not REALLY a switch). This is a nice bonus feature as I can aggregate a lot of copper connections back to 1 chassis without all the spaghetti wiring that is commonly seen in 6500’s and 4500’s. In the case of Brocade and Force10, they actually have the TOR extensions as nothing more than MRJ-21 patch panels. With 1 cable(which is the width of a pencil) per 6 copper ports, the amount of wiring coming back to the chassis is reduced tremendously.

Additionally, there is no power consumption at the top of the rack like there is with the Nexus 2000’s and it is a direct link to the top of rack connections unlike the Nexus model where I have an intermediate 5000 series switch in between.

One final note. The HP/H3C A12508 is listed on the HP site as the A12508, but when you click into the actual product page, it is listed as the S12508. These terms can be mixed and matched and mean the same chassis. I have chosen to use A12508 as the model number as much as possible in this post, but my previous post that mentioned the various switches used the letter “S” instead of “A”.

I plan on posting a few more thoughts on this process as it pertains to specific platforms. I was awed by several of the platforms, not just by the hardware itself, but by the approach the company is taking to the data center in general. Any of these platforms will do the job I need them to do. Some will do that job a lot better than others. As for cost, I have only seen numbers on a few of the platforms. That’s something that is important, but not the most important. You can read my previous post on this for more clarification on what my thought process is.

Remember that I am not claiming to be an expert in regards to any of these platforms. I have done many hours of research on them, but there is a chance that some information in this PDF file will be wrong. If you see any glaring errors, please let me know. I promise you won’t hurt my feelings. If anything is marked “Unknown”, rest assured that I looked at every possible piece of literature on the website that I could reasonably find. If you managed to read this far in the post, the file is below. Enjoy!

Nexus 7010 Comparison – PDF File

*****Update – The Juniper 8200 series does support multi-chassis link aggregation. It just requires another piece to make it work. The XRE200 External Routing Engine gives the 8200 this capability. Thanks to Abner Germanow from Juniper for clarifying that!

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Drowning in Features

August 12, 2010 3 comments

Have you ever bought a car without all the bells and whistles? You end up with some blank buttons in your dashboard. You’re not really sure what they are for, but there’s that little voice in the back of your mind telling you that you should have bought that feature. Of course, you can drive the car for years and never need that button. Or, you can flip through the driver’s manual and see just what it is that button does on the fully loaded model you didn’t buy.

Perhaps you are a student of automobiles and wouldn’t dream of buying a new car without knowing all the possible options or features. You make sure you buy exactly what you need. Nothing more. Nothing less.

What about features that you never knew existed? My mother drove a 1994 Mazda 626 for about 7 or 8 years. It was a pretty nice car, but it had a feature that I have not seen in any other car. The center vent could oscillate back and forth between the driver and passenger seat. There was a button on the center console labeled “Swing”. Push the button, and the vents “swing” back and forth. Leave it off and the air blows in the direction you have the vents turned. Before I saw this, I had no idea such a thing existed. After I saw it, I looked for it in every car I drove or rode in. Not long after my mother bought her 626, I bought a Mazda Protegè. Sadly, I did not have the “Swing” button as an option on my car. Although I drove that car for a good 8 years or so, I never forgot about the “Swing” button letdown and felt as if my car was inferior. My mother moved on and bought a Mazda Millenia. That was the step up from the 626. The flagship car of Mazda, much like the Toyota Avalon or Chrysler 300. Sadly, the Millenia lacked the “Swing” feature in the AC vents, but it did have blue colored gauges at night on the dashboard. Now the “Swing” feature didn’t seem as cool next to the blue colored gauges and dials. One of my friends had recently bought a Volkswagen Jetta around the same time. He had blue colored gauges and dials as well. Of course, his CD changer was in the trunk or boot, and I was not a fan of that feature at all.

Now that I have exhausted my knowledge of automobiles, let me relate this to what you and I do for a living(or at least I assume you do the same thing as me). Features come and go. Some are neat and have a practical purpose. Others are just there. Eye-candy. Nothing more. Sometimes what we need is not the same as what we want. Sometimes we don’t want something until we find out it exists. Ahem, iPad anyone? Now before any Apple fan-boys or fan-girls jump down my throat, I must admit that I own one. I bought one recently and have decided that if my house were burning down and I had to choose one item to take with me in addition to my wife and kids, it would probably be my iPad. 🙂 Having said that, I was perfectly fine living with a laptop and desktop PC at home prior to the iPad’s debut. Once it was marketed to me, and I must say it was marketed rather well, I needed one. Not wanted. NEEDED.

I’m getting away from what I wanted to focus on and that was features, versus an entirely new product, but you get the point. There are a lot of neat little things out there that one vendor does over another. However, I wonder if those particular features are REALLY something we need. Do I REALLY need something like OTV? Some people will say yes. Others will say no. I would say it depends. What were you doing prior to OTV? Although my main focus is on network hardware and software, the same holds true for features in software and hardware outside of the network space. In the case of security, sometimes features can actually end up being vulnerabilities or additional entry points that you have to lock down.

So what is my point in all of this? Well, I am not going to give you answers because to be quite honest, I don’t have them. Remember, this is a blog about network therapy. A big part of therapy is simply stating the problem or concerns. Here’s what I think. If you are spending a lot of money on something, make sure you need what you are buying. Not want. Need. Yes it takes time to go through everything, but that’s what you get paid for. Don’t buy a Lamborghini if a Kia will suffice. If you need the Lamborghini, make your case and get it. Don’t settle for the Kia. If you absolutely have to settle for the lesser due to decisions made above your pay grade, then put in writing your concerns about why the Kia is not sufficient and move on. I know I said I had no answers, but I do have some suggestions. It’s better than a kick in the head, and it’s free, so take it for what it’s worth.

1. Only buy what you need or will need in the near future. You’ll want to consider future requirements as well (ie expansion, features needed down the road). It is often hard to predict the future, but do the best you can.

2. Careful consideration of how to spend company dollars will ultimately reflect good things about you or your particular group. You don’t want to be known as a money wasting group or person.

3. Careful attention to features will help you navigate the difficult waters of vendor selection. This is one of the harder things to master. If you know what you need and are relatively aware of what the major vendors are doing, product selection along with the right feature set becomes a bit easier. For example, check out this article by Greg over at etherealmind.com. If you ONLY live in the Cisco 3750 world of stackable switches, you might miss the fact that Juniper can do the same thing, but extend the logical switch over a LOT longer distances. This is but one example. There are many more like this out there. Go find them and buy them, but only if you must. 😉

Thankfully, most network hardware comes with a ton of features by default. It’s usually the higher end stuff that we talk ourselves into buying and don’t necessarily need. I’m looking at you VSS. I’m not saying there isn’t a place for it. I use it and think it is some pretty cool stuff, but I wonder if the expense is worth the benefit sometimes.

If you are a consultant, ignore everything I just said(or “wrote” if you want to nitpick). You make your living off of selling services and equipment. You are exempt. However, if you are the reason a 10 user network of office workers have dual 6513’s with Sup720’s, ACE, FWSM, and WiSM, you should be ashamed of yourself. In that case, I can simply quote Jesus: “Go and sin no more.“.

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